http://www.examiner.com/x-11989-Nashville-...venue-Rocketown

Gotta love it. Yeah, Toxic Holocaust, Black Dahlia Murder, and Skeletonwitch sure are meant to be taken seriously. Joel Grind of TH was quoted as saying something along the lines of "They don't fucking realize we're being tongue-in-cheek?"

NUKE THE CROSS!

Eh Not much to say.
Christians will be Christians...

Absolutely. I just really enjoy the tone of the article.

Thou shalt not drink on buses.

The Christians running Rocketown seem okay to me.

Who cares.

i pray to joe pesci

the simple minded people known as Mormons, Christians, Jewish, Catholics, and many other god fearing religions are filled with slaves of the mind who are too weak to make it through life on their own.

if anyone is to believe in Christ, why dont they worship Lazarus? if you do not know who lazarus is... he is dated 500 years before christ, has the same EXACT story and all that jazz...

in short, Americans are mostly idiots.

FUCK BORIS JOHNSON.

George Carlin! RIP


Gilgamesh, Dionysus, Horus, and Krishna, just to name a few, all pre-date Christ and yet they all have nearly identical bios.

Dont forget Anakin Skywalker , remember 'A long time ago in a galaxy far far away' .

The myth/history around Jesus is the same as Mithras, who in turn is the same as Horus/Osirus. There were also Summerian gods and heros that had virgin births, the ability to perfom miracles and were sacrificed for the world. the Hopi people believed that a world savior would be born under a new star and would return at the end of time to collect the keepers of the ancient ways. Welcome to comparitive mythology 101, pull up a stone bench and grab a stylus.

The notion of borrowing mythology is as old as dirt. You may want to take some anthropology classes before you posit such a profoud realization.

And if all people who subscribe to religious thought are idiots then what do you make of:

Albert Einstein
Galileo
Sir Issac Newton
Leonardo DiVinci
Soren Kirkegaarde
Martin Luther King
Carl Jung

Could it be that they believed in God and were not idiots?

Simple minded people, one and all.

BTW How are those blanket statements working for you? Being overly general and German at the same time must be tough, nobody takes you seriously unless there is a bottle of lube handy and all that jazz.

*Fuckin' brilliant in The Departed ang Gangs of New York.

** Everyone can be as knowledgeable and wordy as fuck but it all comes down to calling people
Gay on the Internet , in the end.

Leonardo DiVinci, Issac Newton, and Galileo had no choice in the matter. Issac definitely believed in a personal god. But that was merely a circumstance associated with living in the period in which he lived. The theory of Evolution hadn't been postulated yet, and genes hadn't been discovered yet. Had these three been born in present day, their beliefs may have been very different. If I was born in Issac Newtons time I would probably be a theist of some kind... And the god that I would worship would be determined solely by geographic happenstance. Where I was born and raised.

As for Galileo... His theory on a heliocentric solar system flew in the face of the church's geocentric model of the solar system. He was put under house arrest by the church! And the publication of any of his works was FORBIDDEN by the church. If he did come out as being an atheist he would have been killed. As with anyone else living in his time and location.

Sorry to sound like a dick here, but in regards to Einstein, you're completely wrong. Which is it? Are you're honesty ignorant on the subject and your getting your information from a creationist website or are you intentionally being dishonest to promote your ideas. Or is it something else? When Einstein spoke of god he meant it in the mysterious, metaphorical sense. He DID NOT believe in a PERSONAL GOD. Provided here are ACTUAL quotes of his... You can fact check them if you'd like... But these are just a few.

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
-- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding "Do you believe in God?" Quoted from and citation notes derived from Victor J Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001), chapter 3.

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible is a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
-- Albert Einstein, in a letter responding to philosopher Eric Gutkind, who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt; quoted from James Randerson, "Childish Superstition: Einstein's Letter Makes View of Religion Relatively Clear: Scientist's Reply to Sell for up to £8,000, and Stoke Debate over His Beliefs" The Guardian, (13 May 2008)

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything "chosen" about them."
-- Albert Einstein, in a letter responding to philosopher Eric Gutkind, who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt; quoted from James Randerson, "Childish Superstition: Einstein's Letter Makes View of Religion Relatively Clear: Scientist's Reply to Sell for up to £8,000, and Stoke Debate over His Beliefs" The Guardian, (13 May 2008)

But none of this^^^ really matters because you're using a classic creationist argument; APPEAL TO AUTHORITY. I don't care if every great mind on this planet believes in a personal god. If no one can present a logical non-slanted case, one that isn't driven by ideological reasons, I STILL DON'T BELIEVE. And I shall put no such faith in those claims. For the record Streetshaman; I'm not trying to be incendiary or disrespectful in any way.

so true, I thought What's Eating Gilbert Grape was his best role. It has fat people and retards.

Eh, as usual Einstein ends up on the list of intelligent but religious people..

Not saying he wasnt any form of religious but he did say he didnt believe in the concept of God as a character but rather the God of the worlds harmony or something to that effect.

So when debating religion in the form of christianity and other community-like religions; no he probably wasnt religious.

That's exactly how I am... It would be arrogant for me to assert that there is absolutely with out a shadow of a doubt no existence of god. In doing that, I am guilty of possessing the same arrogant certitude that I criticize religious fanatics for having. So in reality, I'm technically a deist. But in practice I'm an atheist.

Fixed.

Also, I'm christian and I'm the epitome of fun.

Lets have a pic of you pushing yer balls up some chick's ass to prove it then bro.

So one's environment dictates what one believes in? For an atheist that is pretty fucking deterministic =P

Also evolution is not the blooming answer to all things metaphysical. Its not like people were logically stunted until Darwin showed up.



I will look for my source but from what I recall, he was upset that the church was so inflexible and wanted nothing more than to introduce a new way of looking at things. Also try to separate "the church" from theology. The Church could have stabbed jesus in the face and called hitler a hero, it has nothing to do with god and only to do with the people who call themselves "the church".



No offense taken, but at no point did I bring up a PERSONAL god. You are implying that when I say God, I have a set definition. From books on the matter Einstein was a religious (or spiritual if you prefer) person who also said "god does not play dice" which at least supposes a figurative "face" for god. When I speak of God i mean in the mysterious metaphorical sense too, I will be the last person to offer definitive answers.

And to think I would scrape from a creationist site is a slap to my gonads sir!



Again, the use of the word "himself" hints at a man-like god, whether he beleived that is neither here nor there, jsut saying for the sake of points.



That's his interpretation of a million different ways to conceptualize god. The bottom line is he believed in a higher power, energy itself maybe, who knows but he subscribes divinity to what many scientists beleive to be completely mundane.



One does not have to adhere to a race, creed or collective to believe in god(s) no matter how tangible or abstract. So he doesn't think the Jewish people are the chosen. This belief is shared by others both theists and non theists, jewish and non-jewish.



And yet again, the assumption that I or anyone else who discusses god in general terms is a Creationist. This is fallacious and ignorant. And for the record, as much as i like discussing theology, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. If you feel threatened by the discussion, thats on your dime not mine. I thought this was a forum, where people exchange ideas. And one that is flavored by the band's appreciation for mythology and metaphysics, which is evident in their music.

My only argument is god, of some sort, exists. The rest is us shooting the breeze and bouncing ideas around.

Me being a very non-religous person found this comment that I respect very much from the someone's point of view.

[/quote]
First and foremost, Keith, you are doing what any parent in the world would do and that's to look out for your son's best interest and choosing whats best. Being that your son is under the age of 18, you got to take the appropriate measure in this situation. I go to Rocketown on a monthly , sometimes weekly basis. I'm a HUGE/AVID fan of music ranging anywhere from Phil Collins to Necrophagist,and just about anything that you can throw at me. Rocketown's staff is a friendly, helpful staff that would give their own lives for all the kids that walk through their doors. They hold concerts ranging from pure worship to glow stick induced (NON DRUG ORIENTED) Raves, to mosh pit frenzied Death Metal shows like the one your son wanted to go to. I myself am a Christian, and I agree with the majority of commenters. It's all harmless fun. Go with him sometime. You can't hide the world from your son,so as long as he sticks to his guns with Faith in Christ, what does he have to lose? It's only music.
[/quote]

Tell that to any person dwelling in a prominently Muslim nation. Further more, tell that to any so-called American Christian that hasn't read up on his/her bible (Christians here love to hit you over the head with a book they haven't even read). A person that exhibits the inability to think for oneself is very likely to adopt the mindset and ideals of those around them... Parents, peers, teachers, and ministers alike. For example; I know many individuals that have are of a conservative political mindset because their parents have brought them up to have those values. This is purely a case of nurture. If you or I were born somewhere else we might have subjugated into believing in the god of Allah or ________ (insert god here.)


I was using the theory of evolution as an example. You didn't have any qualms about me mentioning genetics. I'm merely illustrating the point that the more we know and understand the true state of the universe, the more we realize just how intangible and distant god (whatever that means to you) really is. Think back at people of more primitive cultures... These people believed that god was casting rain, famine, lightning bolts, and guiding their very existences. Through our advancements in science and understanding we've seen first hand how how the concept god has been whittled down to a nub.

It's like "god" is the light. And man is the prism that splits that light into many distinguishable colors. Men will forever fight over which faith represents the true color of god.


If you mean god in a metaphorical sense (as do I) and not as a personal god, than you believe that there are things in this universe in which man cannot explain through natural means... How can you be so certain of that? If feel like you're throwing in with a god because you think there are things in this universe in which man can NEVER understand. You're dealing with a absolute here. And further more, it feels as though you're playing "god of the gaps". Just because we cannot explain it at the moment does not mean that god is the only possible explanation. A thousand years ago germ theory wasn't even drempt of yet, and naturally people played "god of the gaps". They could not comprehend illness and death caused my microscopic organisms.... so.... God must have been responsible.
Imagine what we'll know 1,000 years from now.

I feel as though you ARE offering a definitive answer on the question of gods' existence though.


Sorry. You do come off as that kind of person though... At least in your internet discussions.
As probably do I come of as some Darwin worshiping idiot that knows not what he's even discussing.


My mistake.


We know that there's energy in the universe.... And there's mass. But why do we have to re-label these concepts. If we find out that pure energy is responsible for everything in the universe that energy does not suddenly become god. It's just a term. There's no sense in calling things explained or unexplained in the natural world "god".


What I found compelling about that quote is how brilliantly it illustrates how most religious groups think that they are the chosen, the truth, and the light. They can't all be right? But I understand now that you're not referring to any of those particular ideological mindsets.


How can I take you any other way when you assert that god must be real in some form or another.
Have you entertained the idea that there may not be? That there doesn't have to be one?
If I'm threatened by anything, it's the constant barrage of double-talk you've bombarded me with.
In one hand, you'll lay out a carefully reasoned argument and you'll cover pretty much all the different views.
And on the other hand, you boldly assert that there IS indeed a god (and that none of this universe we live in is even possible without the existence of that particular influence). <<< "If this particular little bit is an inaccurate representation of what you think god is responsible for than please correct me."

If you were truly neutral (which I don't think you are, from what you've shown me) you would've at least acknowledged the possibility of a universe free from divine or supernatural influence. Just because we can't explain something does not make a case for god. And an unexplainable constant or event or... Whatever is not grounds for a supernatural influence.



How can you possibly know that? You said it very plainly right there^^^.

I've really enjoyed this back and forth streetshaman. I've actually learned quite a bit. About how I need to define and articulate my ideas more thoroughly, and how I need to ask more questions to the opposition to better understand their beliefs before just asserting what I think they believe.

Until next time..... Stay skeptical!

Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God. So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

...

If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

- Paul the Apostle.

quoting apostles? how avant garde and utterly relevant.

If you were keeping up with the topic, you'd see that it was far more relevant than your comment.

Crap I quoted and responded so much to magnum I lost my short novel of blabbery in my frantic attempts to click buttons.

Lesson learned:

Jesus saves!

(computer jokes FTW)

You could just quote scripture. That always works.

You guys make it look like we do it all the time. What I meant is: Bible has nothing against metal, some stupid people have, including some christians, but if you judge ALL christians by that standart you're stupid too, just like the title of this thread.

This could be figured out by the text I quoted with the purpose of enriching the knowledge of all interested, but since you guys' attitude is "well, it's the bible, all of it's content is pure useless outdated bullshit", I'll learn from it and never do it again.

This thread deviated from whatever the article was about into a discussion about personal faith, and like a true blooded developing country blind faithist you quote scripture like a moron and think it proves anything. People are different and christians believe whatever and some dont, but in actual life situations whatever paul, abraham or joe blow says in the bible means jack shit.

That my friend is why you showed everyone what a fucking retard you are. And now to use your own favourite zinger;

we hate you.

I just find it funny that Atheism is super popular after some dude wrote some book about it and everyone read it and just agreed that it was right.

Look I'm gonna keep this short.

There's a lot of opinion-diahorréa going on at the moment so,

Religion is shit and also the root of all evil.

End of story.

No, dude. You are turning things more complicated.

Cannibalsong quoted a crhistian saying that doesn't matter if you like metal or not. I quoted scripture with the simple purpose of saying "yes, it doesn't matter indeed, even according to the bible". Does it sound like me trying to use scripture as a "proof" of anything?

But your stupidity and laziness prevented you from realizing that I was agreeing with you filthy atheists about the core subject of the thread, even while criticizing it's oversimplistic title.

And by the way i said "we hate you" to people like mastofred, reznier, midas, etc. etc. Do you e-like any of these guys?

Because I'm not sure about how many people would stick with you in this "we" thing of yours.

Organized religion rapes cultures, destroys heritage and bastardizes nations. Spirituality is fine; I'm a spiritual person but trying to convert is idiotic. To each their own and all that bunk but I'm still not a fan of churches of any sort for that matter.

I know what was said.

I know what people meant.

Quoting scripture when trying to prove that all christians arent like this or that, is still dumb.

No I dont like those guys but I dont like you either so whats the difference.

Albert Einstein
Galileo
Sir Issac Newton

all hated religion/ the idea of any kind of god, do your homework you fucking idiot...

Or to explain further;

If you actually think the words of Paul matters right now to the christians outraged over the metal played at this establishment then I forfeit this argument.

Trust me, Streetshaman is NOT an idiot!

If you took the time and read our little back and forth, you would know that I already addressed the Einstein and Galileo issue in great detail to Streetshaman in a respectable manner and gave in-depth explanations to support my claims.

You can't tell someone to "do your homework" when you haven't shown the opposition that you have done your homework. If you think someone is wrong correct them with facts, evidence, or at least make a good argument. You did none of these things.... You're the one behaving like an idiot. Only when you've proven you're intelligent enough to sit at at the grown-ups table, then and only then will we take your claims seriously.

Isaac Newton on the other hand is a kind of a tough one to figure out. But it doesn't really matter does it? If everyone in the world believed in god that wouldn't necessarily make it true would it? And you wouldn't change you views based on popular opinion would you?
Hell, at one point everyone knew the earth was flat!

CONSENSUS DOES NOT DETERMINE REALITY.

Jesus TL;DR H Christ, i thought this was about fucking Skeletonwitch?

How about I do your homework for you. I already did mine when you were twinkle in the swamp thing's eye. I even used academia, journalism, and in case you are biased against those institutions; a wiki link.

Bon Appetit!




http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/galileo-tuscany.html

Direct quote from Galileo's letter to the Duchess:

"Now keeping always our respect for moderation in grave piety, we ought not to believe anything inadvisedly on a dubious point, lest in favor to our error we conceive a prejudice against something that truth hereafter may reveal to be not contrary in any way to the sacred books of either the Old or the New Testament."




www.time.com

Do you believe in God?

"I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton&...religious_views

"Isaac Newton's religious views influenced his lifetime of work. Sir Isaac Newton was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, theologian and alchemist. While Newton's fame came from his work in the field of science, his work on Biblical hermeneutics was the work he most loved. He also wrote many works that would now be classified as occult studies."


Now run along before I send you to bed without supper.

Erm, yeah, sorry guys, didn't mean to spur a religious argument here. Skeletonwitch and Toxic Holocaust rule?



Dude, you're the shit.

Hey Streetshaman!
Guess what?
I'm watching the film Jesus Camp on YouTube!
Good times eh?
These guys give moderate Christians a bad name.

Every time I watch this I get so pissed off and disgusted with my fellow man!
.... But then I watch Carl Sagan's Universe and I'm hopeful again.

Jesus, dude. I don't know how to make it clarer.

The words of Paul are in disagreement with the attitude of those guys who condemn metal. It may don't matter to them, but it certainly matters to other christians.

Quoting the Bible, the source of christian doctine, to exemplify thoughts of some christians(other than those) is not dumb; it's a very obvious thing to do.

I never had anything against you, but please quit embarrassing yourself. And that "third world" thing huh? If you had thought 2 seconds before posting all the aimless crap you said you'd prevent yourself from looking like the dumb asshole you've embodied now.

ill quote the bible, Please, in honor of jesus... beat your wife, enslave some brown people, then pray to me...

I dont remember reading that....



And dude, Shaman deserves respect. He is one of the top contributors to this board. Every post is a pleasure to read.

read the old testament, which makes no sense, why would we make a new testament if we were trying to follow the teachings of jesus, man just thought it was outdated and wrong so they rewrote it... for all we know jesus couldve been the town drunk, history has just been rewritten so much that he can suddenly walk on water and turn water into wine...

Fucking hell you're an idiot.

It is unethical to drink wine while you're walking on water.

jesus's blood = wine, he musta been wasted 24/7 - Peter Griffon

Peter Griffon? You can't even get a Family Guy quote right.

You are a goddamn retard. Jesus Christ